Open Chat... All Day, Every Day! Express Your Views, Debate, and Challenge the Views of Others!

In order to keep up with the nature of free, spirited debate, I wanted to place the chat feature at the top of the homepage. This ensures people can come here and share their views on anything they wish and not have it be related to any specific discussion. Here, people can share ideas, links, and views "unmoderated" and an their own pace. To me, this makes The Elephant in the Room blog truly a place for debate.

Tuesday, March 6, 2012

March 6, 2012 - Super Tuesday - Morning Headlines

Morning Headlines:

- Super indeed... Super Tuesday will be watched by many Americans, the GOP candidates, President Obama, and it will be covered by all news networks:

     - Fox News:

     - CNN:

     - ABC News:

     - MSNBC:

- As President Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met on Monday, Netanyahu made it clear that Israel's security will be managed by Israel as it sees fit (CNN):

- U.S. Attorney General defended the killing of Americans that are considered terrorists (Fox News):

- North Korea conducts live-fire drills near North-South border (ABC News):


  1. The 0bama regime wants to extend Constitutional rights to illegal aliens and terrorists at Guantanamo Bay but want to waive Constitutional rights for actual American citizens.

    I'm not saying that Anwar al Awlaki (or whatever his name was) didn't get what he deserved, but he didn't get the trial that he deserved.

    I sure can't wait until November.

    1. Good morning slim, hope things are going well for you.

      Unfortunately, I don't think that we would see much difference even under Republican leadership, at least as far as that whole NDAA bill goes.

      Yeah, Obama signed it, but it was still passed through a complete bipartisan effort. Only 14 Senators voted no:
      Cardin (D-MD), Coburn (R-OK), Crapo (R-ID), DeMint (R-SC), Durbin (D-IL), Franken (D-MN), Harkin (D-IA), Lee (R-UT), Merkley (D-OR), Paul (R-KY), Risch (R-ID), Sanders (I-VT), Wyden (D-OR) (14 American Heroes)

      7 Democrats
      6 Republicans
      1 Independent

      Even the opposition was bipartisan. But, it still had enough support to overturn a veto.

  2. Can someone PLEASE explain to me America's unwarranted, blind support of Israel??? It's driving me crazy as I don't see much difference between how the Israelis act and how the Palestinians act. Palenstinians launch unprovoked mortar attacks while the Israelis, unprovoked, send in tanks to level towns.

    Holder should defend killing terrorists, no matter their nationality. Capture is preferred (and every effort should be made to carry this out first - as an example, I am appalled that Osama bin Laden wasn't captured. The effort was made but, from what has been released, an assassination was carried out) but if you have the chance to take out someone planning to kill Americans (without trial or any other consideration), you take it. Anwar al Awlaki took up arms against the country of his citizenship in favor of a foreign entity. This is equal to renouncing ones citizenship, in my opinion.

    1. Whatsamattausa - good morning! Long time no see.

      I can see your points here, and personally, as someone who has a background in finance/economics and not history, I'm not sure, either. I don't have much of an opinion on it though, but I'd like to learn.

      I am a little confused. This is definitely not an attack on you or anything at all, but an attempt for me to further learn and understand. I understand you're views on indefinite detention, the Constitution, and I thought Constitution-backed due process... I'm a little surprised on your view of al Awlaki... to take him out without due process and the precedent that it sets. Just curious. Hope all is well...

      P.S. Got any predictions for Super Tuesday?

    2. LME - A long time indeed/ I've been running crazy for the last month or so. Started replying to your email of some time ago and just never finished it and have just not had time to check in to your site, unfortunately.

      As to Israel, I too am naive regarding the history. I know it's long and ugly but that's about the extent of my 'knowledge'.

      Respectable inquiry will never be viewed as an attack by me :)! I'm not for indefinite suspension and somewhat split on the trial process of those at Guantanamo because I think just about ALL of the evidence would be circumstantial. I believe everyone tried by the US is entitled to a fair trial governed by US law. However, the battlefield is a different story. That is a time when checking passports is not reality. In the case of al Awlaki, he was assassinated. I believe more of an effort should have been made to capture him and try him (as I believe the same effort should have been made to capture bin Laden - though, with him, the effort was made and the assassination still carried out. Frankly, I find this more troubling than the al Awlaki thing because they had him and chose to assassinate rather than capture - please keep in mind that I base that assertion on the information released to the public as I, unfortunately, was not there). However, I think it is in the best interest of this country to take out someone who could be plotting to kill 1, 10, 100, 1,000, or more Americans. My position is no doubt nuanced, I'll agree. But, like I said, if you take up arms for a foreign entity against your country of citizenship, that you have given up that citizenship and become an enemy combatant. I don't care what you nationality is. If a man was standing in the street pointing a gun at passersby, should the gov't wait to capture the person? Indeed an effort should be made but, at some point, you have to put the greater good of society ahead of the individual rights of someone who is a threat to that society. al Awlaki was the man in the street. That being said, I hope that al-Zawahiri is captured and tried in an American courtroom. In essence, I believe if you take up arms against your country in favor of another, foreign entity, you have chosen to relinquish your rights as an American.

      As for Super Tuesday.... I've proven to be quite inept at making predictions but hell, everyone gets lucky once...

      Alaska - Ron Paul
      Georgia - Newt Gingrich
      Idaho - Mitt Romney
      Massachusetts - Mitt Romney
      North Dakota - Rick Santorum
      Ohio - Rick Santorum
      Oklahoma - Rick Santorum
      Tennessee - Rick Santorum
      Vermont - Mitt Romney
      Virginia - I'm not picking this one as my own personal boycott of this 'primary' :)

    3. Good afternoon Whatsamattausa. It's good to see you again. Hope all has been well, it has been a while.

      First, their is a huge difference in the Palestinians and the Israelis. The Israelis only send the tanks/bombs in after one of those unprovoked mortar attacks you mentioned, which would make the Israeli response a provoked response not an unprovoked response. Also, am I missing something? I haven't seen any Israeli/Palestinian conflict in the news lately. What town are you referring to getting leveled by tanks and when?

      I, too, am a little confused by your views Whatsamattausa. So you don't see a fundamental problem with someone deciding on a whim who gets due process and who doesn't? We give due process rights to serial killers, child molesters, cop killers and other kinds of low-lifes. The guy was an American citizen. He should have been given a trial and once found guilty, marched out back of the courthouse and one round put right between his eyes. I don't have a problem with the end result (Awlaki eliminated) but I do have problems with pissing on the Constitution (wasn't that your reader post?) to do it.

      As far as bin Laden goes, yes, I believe he was assassinated. No, I don't have a problem with it. Why spend money feeding and housing that worthless sack of camel dung?

      Speaking of bin Laden, did you see where 0bama may have lied to us about what he did with bin Laden's body. Turns out it is possible that the goat fornicators body was brought to Delaware and cremated, not buried at sea. Could we see another 0bama apology to irate muslims?

      I find it very peculiar that 0bama wants the Gitmo prisoners to have Constitutional rights even though they are not American citizens but does not want Constitutional due process rights for an actual American citizen. Granted the guy is a scum bag but he is, well was, an American citizen. Yes, I think it is despicable that he was at war against us and yes he got what he deserved in death but his rights were violated.

      Again, good to see you back. Have a super day.

    4. Slim -

      The tank thing was unprovoked and happened during Bush's term (I think - not that Bush had anything to do with it but just giving that as a sense of timing)... I'm looking for a link to post.

      As I said, my position is no doubt nuanced but I believe you have relinquished your rights as an American when you take up arms for a foreign entity. So, no, I don't believe that is pissing on the constitution as my belief, in the aforementioned circumstance, is that one has forgone their constitutional rights when they make that decision. Is there a law that backs my position? No. I would however support such a law.

      With bin Laden, if you're going to expend the money, resources, and good will to go after him than bring him back, try him, convict him, and sentence him. I am fine with the end result but I don't like the way it happened (nor do I like the way the al Awlaki assassination happened but that has nothing to do with his nationality but rather assassinations which are supposed to be illegal).

      I didn't see that about bin Laden's body, do you have a link?

      Let me ask this... Do you remember John Walker Lindh (American Taliban)? Hypothetically, what if he was shot before captured or during the prison riot that killed Red Cross workers? What is your position on that?

    5. What

      I've seen you on here and I beleve, from what I have read that you support Dr. Paul, but I'm now questioning myself. For some reason, you were in favor of just murdering an American citicen. We have free speech rights. We have the right to denounce our country. NO evidence was collected against Al Alwaki. He was just killed. He wasn't pointing a gun at anyone. If that was the case, why didn't they just kill Tim McVeigh? Why not just kill anyone that says they want to take down the US? I don't think you truly support Dr. Paul.

    6. KLL -

      Just because I don't align with Dr. Paul or any other politician 100% doesn't mean I can't support them. I do support him because I think we is the best person to lead this country. I can't say whether they have evidence or not but I'm guessing they do. No proof but I suspect there is plenty. Generally speaking, the US doesn't go around killing its citizens. He may not have been pointing an actual gun at people but the planning to take American lives is the same thing. I don't understand your point on McVeigh. As I said, it is MY belief (probably not yours or Dr. Paul's, but mine as an individual) that once you take up arms against this country for a foreign entity, you have forgone your rights as an American. If, as an example, the Occupy movement got to a point of war, I would agree with your position as they are Americans fighting for America (as they believe it should be and/or was meant to be). If you disagree, fine but that is MY position. I don't march in lock step with someone because of who they are or what party they represent. I take the liberty I am afforded to agree and disagree with certain platforms as I see fit.

    7. No, I don't remember John Walker Lindh. I had to google him. I would have no problem with him being killed under those circumstances, however, al Awlaki wasn't killed under those circumstances. A drone attack killed him. Apples and oranges.

      The link for the bin Laden story is:

      Was it a tank or a bulldozer? When you said it was as far back as the Bush years, the bulldozer deal comes to mind. Please do get me a link on that.

    8. Whatsamattausa -

      Well KLLT4TLLT too... KLLT, your opinion is certainly your opinion, but I'd say it won't get you far challenging Whatsamattausa on whom he supports or doesn't support. I have to admit, his statement of, "Just because I don't align with Dr. Paul or any other politician 100% doesn't mean I can't support them" kind of checkmates your argument. That's just my view of it.

      Whatsamattausa - This paragraph... "Respectable inquiry will never ... your rights as an American" I gotta admit really helped me understand your point of view. I actually don't know if I agree or disagree yet, but damn, that was well written and made a lot of sense. Thank you for the info!

      32slim32 - You are making good points as well... and in fact... RKen's point about the Patriot act and NDAA are very good, too. This has been a great discussion; I just wish I knew more about it.

      I hope these great debates keep up. The rest of this week on this blog, after the Super Tuesday stuff winds down, it should be interesting. Tomorrow morning there is going to be a great Reader's Post about the Rush Limbaugh situation and hopefully Thursday or Friday I'm finishing up a piece (Pachyderm Pride is helping, a little... that dolt, lol) about the "tax the rich" mantra and if it would or would not help our government's financial situation. It involves a LOT of numbers and analysis, and it's taking a while.

      But all in all, this post has been great, and I've learned a lot about this subject and why many people of many different views feel the way they do.

    9. Slim - Apples to oranges, agreed. However, the end result is the same. Whether he was killing Americans in a firefight or in a planning capacity (such as bin Laden or al-Zawahiri), it is, in my opinion, the same. Again, I wish they had made more of an effort to capture him but I don't really have a problem with his killing. When I say that, I make the assumption (and it's probably a dangerous one) that the US gov't had the evidence against him. I know my position opens me up for question but there are always going to be exceptions to the rule and, for me, this is one.

      Thanks for the bin Laden link... I tend to have more faith in news out of the UK than I do here! Interesting reading though I'm not sure it means anything as Burton seems to be expressing nothing but opinion. It wouldn't shock me if it's true but I just don't see any reason for bringing him back here. I, personally, think his body should have been returned (or at least offered to) to his family in Saudi Arabia.

      I think it was bulldozers with tank or other armored escort. I'm still looking for a link (problem is, there has been so much conflict and articles I'm getting the 'needle in a hay stack' feeling!). If I do find it I'll post.

    10. Fair enough on the exceptions. I am all for free speech up to burning my American flag. That kind of brings out a mean streak in me when I see my flag disrespected. Are they too illiterate to make their point without the flag and a bic lighter?

      Yeah, if it was the bulldozer deal, Israel was demolishing partially destroyed buildings in Israel and some whack job American chick jumped on a moving bulldozer and was killed. What right does an American citizen have telling Israel what they can or can't do in their own country? She was protesting something or another. I hate she got killed but if she were minding her own business here in the USA she may still be alive.

      When it comes to Israel you need to read every story you can find. The media loathes Israel and will leave out facts and distort some of the few facts they put out.

    11. Fair enough? Watching you two go back and forth is like watching two vampires suck blood from rocks.

      Both of you are way off base. Get real.

    12. Gina - Please enlighten us! A seemingly derogatory drive-by comment doesn't do anyone any good. If we're so far off base and you have the knowledge that allows you to make such a comment, please educate us so we can stop being rock sucking vampires.

      Slim - I recall the bulldozed incident (though there were many, this one sticks out as it was written as being unprovoked) as Israel bulldozing houses in Palestinian territories because they (Israel) felt they were too close to the border or something of that nature. I try to read as many of those articles as I can to learn about what is going on over there. I probably need to find a good, fair book.

      Out of curiosity, where did the free speech part come from? I'm not following you on that. You have mentioned something about the flag before in a dialog we had. Though I understand and share your passion for this country, the flag is but a symbol with many meanings to many people. The symbolism lies within your heart and mind (which causes the passion). I try not to mix up the symbol and the symbolism as the latter is on an individual basis... for whatever that's worth!

      Hope all is well!

    13. Whatsamattausa -

      I like it: drive-by comment! You're right. I dislike them. I see them a lot on MSM blogs. People just leave one-liners with no fact, no info, and nothing to learn or share from. Certainly, Gina D is free to say whatever she likes, but it doesn't help her cause if she has no "teeth" behind what she says. Left or right, I wish people would give a reason for not agreeing and back/counter it with proof. But I do like the phrase. You might have to copyright it.

      Gina D -

      I would say welcome, but I think I've seen the name before... maybe, maybe not. I have to agree with Whatsamattausa on this one. Got anything that might help us better understand? Debates are personal... we just want information. Thank you.

    14. Whatsamattausa......"I know my position opens me up for question but there are always going to be exceptions to the rule and, for me, this is one."

      I was acknowledging an understanding to exceptions to rules. I simply shared one exception to one of my rules.

      And all is fabulous with me. The sun is shining it is 60 degrees and I am on the right side of the dirt. I don't suppose I could be any better.

    15. Slim - Gotcha... thanks for clarifying!

  3. Good morning RKen. Things are going well for me. I hope that they are for you too.

    I'm sorry RKen, I can't give 0bama a pass on this. What is the old line the liberals use about Bush when he signed bad bi-partisan bills.....oh yeah, "Was his veto pen broke"?

    I am glad that Anwar al Awlaki is dead but he was an American citizen and he was hunted down and killed with out due process. Just because the media isn't all worked up and foaming at the mouth doesn't make it right. They would be irate had this happened under Bush. Just another classic example of the double standard in the media.

    I will have to admit I was surprised at some of the Democrats that voted against this like Al Franken and Dick "turban" Durbin and even the socialist Bernie Sanders.

    1. If I may clarify, I'm not giving Obama any sort of pass on the NDAA.

      Whether or not his veto could have been overturned, he should have vetoed it. His decision not to weighs heavily against him in my mind, and will come election time.

      However, I just don't believe that the NDAA issue itself can be labeled so clearly as 'an Obama/Democrat' issue. Just as I feel the same way for the Patriot Act (which also had bipartisan support), because while yes it was passed under Bush, both Dems and Repubs voted in large numbers and in unison to pass it.

    2. I agree 100% with you in a lack of support for the Patriot Act. I guess I may have been a bit of a sucker but I actually thought that 0bama might have taken action against it. I was surprised when he extended and enhanced it. I guess that was my only surprise as far as he goes.

      Have a great day.

  4. This is really good stuff. I don't even know what to say. I'm at work now but will come up with something when I get home.

    1. Ladies and gents. The most useless comment of the day