Open Chat... All Day, Every Day! Express Your Views, Debate, and Challenge the Views of Others!

In order to keep up with the nature of free, spirited debate, I wanted to place the chat feature at the top of the homepage. This ensures people can come here and share their views on anything they wish and not have it be related to any specific discussion. Here, people can share ideas, links, and views "unmoderated" and an their own pace. To me, this makes The Elephant in the Room blog truly a place for debate.

Thursday, October 11, 2012

The Vice Presidential Debate - Open Forum and Radio Show

Let's get ready to rumble!!!! #VPDebate

Image source: Wikipedia

Okay, maybe not. This isn't a fight. It's a serious chance to learn about our candidates' positions on how they would help or hurt the country over the next 4 years. It's old school democrat versus young-gun conservative.

This is an open forum to discuss tonight's Vice Presidential debate. A few questions:

- Who do you think will win? 
- Who will be more "aggressive?"
- Will the debate be fair?

After the debate:

- Who won? 
- Will it affect the polls?
- Best line? Worst line?

After the debate, join me and the usual crew on The 405 Live at 10:30pm EST tonight for our special post debate show!  The show is hosted by @johng405. Listen at the following link:

Call in at 877-297-8022 to give your take on the presidential debate. Jump on the air and join us in the fun! As always, feedback on the segment is greatly appreciated. 

Interesting fact: Paul Ryan was only three years old when Joe Biden won his first term in the senate.


  1. - Who do I think will win? - I don't know. Joe Biden has been around a long, LONG time and he's as slick as snake snot. Paul Ryan has been known to flare up on occasion, and good ol' Joe will most assuredly take advantage of that - IF Ryan gives him an opening.

    - Who will be more aggressive? - I believe Biden MUST come out swinging. He has to - he's got the president's abysmal record to defend; some very socialist 'ideas' going 'forward'.

    - Will the debate be fair? - Well, the president attended the moderator's wedding, so there's I figure there's a left lean to her ideology. Hopefully, she can do as well as Lerner did in keeping to the issues w/o bias.

  2. Apparently Ryan knows Biden's weakness. We shall see.

  3. My main question is; with the altitude in Danville, KY being considerably higher than that of Washington DC's (984 ft vs only 25 ft)has Joe "Plugs" Biden been in KY long enough to get used to the higher altitude? I sure wouldn't want him to be at any bigger disadvantage than he has to be.

    Surely AlGore has advised them as to how to handle it.

  4. Ryan is a hunter, and he will go on the hunt tonight. There is no reason for him to back down after the victory Romney had. Let Joe come off as crazy Uncle Joe. Ryan might be a nerdy wonk, but he is good. I expect another GOP victory here.

  5. Got a kick out of this:

    1. Thanks MN 4 Rick... : ) that took a little of the edge off... wow! I didn't think it was possible, but I'm more nervous about this debate than the LAST one!

  6. Quick note: Wasn't it the left in the first debate that claimed "Romney was rude and abrasive?"

    What is more rude than interrupting and laughing at your opponent?

    1. No question in this debate that Joe Biden is being rude and abrasive, and far more than Romney was in the first debate. Ryan is being far more calm and professional.

      However, by my view, Biden is definitely winning this debate. Despite his behavior, his arguments have had far more substance to them and are very pointed, simple, specific. Pointing to specific historical facts and his experience in them, staying hard on some key numbers/facts... where as Ryan's arguments have surprisingly had far less cold hard facts/numbers, doubly surprising considering that should be his strong suit.

    2. Furthermore, Joe Biden specifically is dissecting major points of Ryan's arguments every chance he's given to speak. He refers directly to Ryan himself, and what he said (often in a crass way, which while bad is still effective).

      When Ryan is given chance to counter, rather than dissect Joe Biden's specific arguments he has been tending to instead try to make a different point (or just repeat his point). I don't think I've even see Ryan address Biden, directly, to discredit one of his direct points yet. He keeps a very general aim in his points, more directed at the whole administration/Democratic party than at Biden specifically.

      Certainly an acceptable debate strategy, but it's far less effective in getting your point across and convincing people of them.

    3. Final thoughts on the debate, scaled.

      Joe Biden speaking freely: 6/10
      Paul Ryan speaking freely: 9/10

      Joe Biden on attacking Paul Ryan's points: 9/10
      Paul Ryan on attacking Joe Biden's points: 4/10

      Overall, Biden: 7/10
      Overall, Ryan: 5/10

      My opinion, of course.

    4. How in the hell do you expect Ryan to reply when he is getting interrupted all the time? When the liberal-leaning moderator lets it happen? When the moderator TELLS Ryan his policies instead of asking questions? ("You don't have details, do you" - Moderator)- Please

    5. Not about whether or not Ryan replies, it's about whether he addresses Biden's points specifically in his replies.

      There are different ways to debate. Ryan is taking more of a 'repeat my original point and/or make a new point' approach. He has a lot he wants to say and fit into this debate, and so he spends most of his opportunities to speak on either repeating the points important to him or expanding on them more.

      This is great as a method to inform, but not quite the best method for debate.

      Biden is taken a 'whatever you say, I will address directly, and say what it is wrong.' When he doesn't have ammo to use against Ryan, his speech is largely empty (which is why I gave him 6/10 on that). But when he has ammo, he uses it very effectively.

      And in the end, they're both very close to the same talking time, so I can't accept the argument that Ryan wasn't given a chance to talk.

      And, RE: The moderator pushing Ryan for details of his tax plan; I agree it was a bit aggressive, but at the same time this is one of those questions that should be answered. Biden gave a very specific tax plan for what people would expect, and Mitt/Ryan has all but refused that so far and it is an important question to answer.

    6. Pleasure briefly discussing foreign policy with you guys on air. :)

    7. Further thoughts (feel like I'm spamming this blog now, but a lot happened in that debate!)

      I think I'd revise my overall score for Ryan up to 6, maybe even 7/10 if for nothing else than his professionalism, calm attitude, and very well-put and said points; particularly in the face of Biden’s aggression.

      Though, I stick with my original thoughts in that Biden was still the victor here. Both candidates definitely did well in saying what their respective parties wanted to hear, but (at the very least, to me) you need to do more than just drive home your party’s points. In that sense, Ryan failed to provide direct, meaningful counter-arguments to Biden on the fly and instead chose to drive his points home (which of course, is far easier as well). He did help make up for that in his demeanor and eloquent speaking, but not enough to win or hold a draw.

    8. Thank you so much for calling in, RKen! Definitely a pleasure. Do you have any criticism? How was the call handled? Clarity? The panel? Format? Anything you have to share about how we can make it better would be great. If I don't get to hear back from you, thanks again, and have a great weekend!

    9. No problem, enjoyed it! The call was handled well and I thought the panel was great. It brought up a lot of good, interesting points and discussion. At the end, after each of the panel members added their thoughts, I would've liked to have an option to respond to some of the points made by those on the panel/contribute to the discussion, but otherwise I thought it was a well-ran, good setup.

    10. Thank you for the feedback! This comment:

      "At the end, after each of the panel members added their thoughts, I would've liked to have an option to respond to some of the points made by those on the panel/contribute to the discussion,"

      I will be sure to forward. I do agree, and I favor the back and forth discussion with callers. Thank you so much!

    11. No problem, anytime LME. Happy to help.

      Thanks for the chance to speak up.

  7. First, did Biden think there were bonus points for references to "poop"? If there were he should have got 2 or 3 bonus points.

    What is all of the gambling references from this administration? Biden mentioned "These two guys bet against America" (in reference to auto bailouts) for wanting GM to bankrupt. Even after they were bailed out they went thru bankruptcy.

    Biden mentioned "equipping those in harm's way", yet they sent Marines to the Egyptian embassy with no ammo.

    Biden mentioned (in his closing statement I believe) "relief to people who need it now" (in reference to Stimulus). People like Solyndra?

    Also it seems as if Joe made up his own numbers tonight. Like "$800 Million Billion" and then "$250 Million Hundred Thousand".

    1. 800 million billion!!!! Saw That!!!!

  8. Good evening gentlemen. Mike said it on the radio, CNN poll said Ryan won 48-44

  9. Great line LME. There was the Martha Radditz that let Biden interrupt and then there was the Martha Radditz that let Biden interrupt.

    1. Thanks, slim! Really glad you listened in. I hope it was entertaining and helpful!

  10. Oh crap, I can't believe I forgot this. Biden said "This President doesn't bluff". I recall President 0bama telling Boehner or Cantor (forget which one, maybe both)"Don't call my BLUFF" (during the debt ceiling fiasco). Again, another gambling reference. Does POTUS have a gambling problem?

  11. you know what i noticed in the debate? exactly what has been the failure to unite this country in the last four years. biden interrupted and wouldn't let ryan speak. this sums up the way the democrats do it.

    he even said "if you guys would just get out of the way." ryan addressed this. romney addressed this. they have said time and time again they will work with the left. they do not promote this "you do it my way" mentality

    romney/ryan 2012