Open Chat... All Day, Every Day! Express Your Views, Debate, and Challenge the Views of Others!

In order to keep up with the nature of free, spirited debate, I wanted to place the chat feature at the top of the homepage. This ensures people can come here and share their views on anything they wish and not have it be related to any specific discussion. Here, people can share ideas, links, and views "unmoderated" and an their own pace. To me, this makes The Elephant in the Room blog truly a place for debate.

Wednesday, January 25, 2012

Tax Rants and a BIG Question: Do Millionaires Really Pay Lower Tax Rates?

Sure, this is starting to get redundant, but Americans tend to be people of passion. Just look at the GOP nomination process and see how Ron Paul supporters fiercely defend and stand by their candidate. Look at the popularity of the Super Bowl. Most importantly, look at how close the mainstream media and President Obama are, and look at how they keep broadcasting the same old rhetoric.

I, as a writer of for this blog, an economist, and a political-minded person, am very passionate about taxes. I can't just sit by and watch the mainstream media and Obama spread misinformation.

First, I believe the government is too big and taxes too much. It is scary to know that each of us sacrifice so much to this giant, all-encompassing, wasteful entity that we think we control but we really don't. Have you ever stopped to think how many individual taxes you pay in one day? Ever stop to think how much? You wake up in a bed you paid taxes on. Your home is heated, and on that heat you pay taxes. You brush your teeth (taxes on toothpaste), shower (tax on water), get dresses (tax on clothes), and then you get in your car (excise taxes) which is fueled by gasoline (sometimes diesel, but fuel taxes are HUGE) and you drive to work to make an income that is taxed. I could go on and on; I've only listed the things that get us to about 9 o'clock in our day, but by 9 o'clock, look at how many taxes we have paid already! Keep in mind, I'm not against taxes. We need taxation - it's the cost of civilization. But we have gotten to a point where it's just too much... and it's getting worse. This entire post isn't about tax rates per sé; it's about the truth... I will get to it.

Secondly, on top of all this, in a country that promotes "fairness" and non-discriminatory policies, we believe that one group of people should pay WAY MORE in taxes than another. Without getting into the numbers, based on concept alone, how is that fair? Take our article about Mitt Romney's taxes. We show that Mitt pays about 450x more than the average American does in taxes. The sad thing: the press and President Obama claim that not only is Mitt and people like him not paying their fair share, but they are paying "less than their secretaries."

Hogwash! Plain and simple.

Obama can say what he wants about millionaires, but he should just tell the truth. The case he makes is that millionaires paying lower tax rates than their secretaries is the norm, but is most definitely is not. We have written about this before, and, since we are passionate about it, I/we will write about it again. America needs to simply stop living in this world of myth. Below you can find numerous articles, write-ups and reports from this blog and other sources that can help spread the truth about millionaires' tax rates.

Our blog post about Obama's Osawatomie, KS, speech on income inequality:

- We cite the Congressional Research Service Report (, a democrat-sponsored report, mind you, that says, "Among millionaires (see the last two categories in the figure), the average tax rate is almost 30% with about 10% facing a tax rate greater than 35%. Furthermore, another 10% face a tax rate below 24%. Comparing millionaires with moderate-income taxpayers (with AGI less than  $100,000), roughly one-quarter of all millionaires (about 94,500 taxpayers) face a tax rate that is lower than the tax rate faced by 10.4 million moderate-income taxpayers (10% of the moderate income taxpayers), which would be considered a violation of the Buffett rule but not to the extent alluded to by Mr. Buffett." Did you get that? Only 25% of millionaires pay lower tax rates than 10% of middle income earners. It's not "25% of millionaires pay lower tax rates than the entire middle class." No! I will repeat: 25% of millionaires pay lower taxes than only 10% of the middle class. In spite of what President Obama wants to you to believe, millionaires paying lower tax rates than most Americans is NOT the norm. It's a statistical anomaly.

The Cato Institute's write-up of how Obama's millionaire tax rate claim is simply not true:

- This is not our work. Read it... the case is pretty strong.

CNN Money's article about how yes, Mitt Romney pays about 14-15% of his income in taxes, this is still MORE than most Americans:

- Again, the truth is told. I'm sure it is ignored by the left. They try to claim, "well, he has cap gains and it's taxed lower." Yes, that's true, but don't forget that once you give tax refunds to the middle class, their effective rate drops, too (see the first link, my tax info is up there). When people say "I make $45,000 per year and I pay 20%, as these articles show, they are mistaken. During the year, I have about 20% taken from my paycheck each week, but yes, as the first link shows, I get a tax refund back and it reduces my effective tax rate to about 13.5%.

So... why do we keep writing about this? Because we are tired of lies and misinformation. Yes, some millionaires do pay a lower rate. The deception of this claim comes in when Obama and the press make the case that this is the norm when it clearly is not. Please pass this on. No matter who you vote for in November, you should at least know the truth before you do.


  1. The real sad thing about this is that the lefty press will still put this out and you will still have to keep writing about it. I commend your effort though.

  2. The left enslaves people. Truth sets you free... but the left doesn't spread truth.

  3. What kind of "economist" are you, citing political rants as the basis for your personal attacks? I know that many of us are still unclear about exactly what led to the 1929 Depression, and so it is probably unreasonable to expect us to agree on what led to the Collapse of all of our major financial institutions in the Summer of 2008. Still, the data is looking you in the face. Liberal policies and Keynesian economics were the solution in the 1930s, and they are the solution today.

    By the way, Harding and Hoover were better at defending your point of view than you are. But they were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    1. KeyLawk - Thank you for your comment.

      Here at The Elephant in the Room we are HUGE on people backing what they say. I believe this is your first time here.., so I will just let it be known that we stand closer to our opposition who backs what they say than those we agree with that don't.

      With that.. First... Personal attacks? Where are there personal attacks?

      Secondly, this post is NOT about the great depression or the great recession. This post is about the truth, or, in our opinion, the lack thereof being broadcast by the mainstream media. Obama and the MSM constantly claim, as if it is the norm, that millionaires "pay lower tax rates than their secretaries." We are not using "political rants" (we cite reputable news cites... CNN... FOX... and even a CRS report to back what we say) to make our case that what Obama claims is not the norm.

      So... as far as defending our point (in case you missed it, it's that the slogan "millionaires pay lower rates than the middle class" is a myth) we back it with reports, studies, and articles. How is that a poor job at defending something we believe?

      I would certainly hope you came here and stepped away from the mainstream media to engage in respectful, civil, insightful, information and fact-backed debate rather than topic-dodging slander. We stand for the former.., and that's what this blog is about. Thank you and we hope to hear back from you.

    2. Yeas, um, keylawk. I'm a democrat. Don't really know where you came up with that, but you ain't helping our side dude. Did you mean to post that on another page or something?

    3. Oh this should be good. earth to key, earth to key. waht you got?

  4. Hey LME, first off, on your effective tax rate, that includes your Social Security and Medicare, which are 4.2% and 1.45% respectively. Is that correct? If so, your Federal Income tax rate was about 7.85%.

    As far as Mr. Buffett's secretary, she makes over $200,000 per year (source: ) and she just bought a second home in Arizona (source: ).

    Doesn't 0bama consider anyone making over $200,000 a year a MILLIONAIRE & BILLIONAIRE? So he's upset one billionaire pays more than the other billionaire. LOL

    Seriously though, I don't have a problem with her making over $200,000 per year. I do find it funny that the people earning that amount of money are the very people that 0bama wants to raise taxes on. One minute he's demonizing people at that income level and the next (when it's convenient for his narrative) he's using them as an example of how unfair things are, using an apples to oranges comparison, of course.

    I find it extremely disgusting that he would drag her out and carry on like she is some $30,000 a year secretary paying a higher rate than a billionaire. But hey, it's about what we have all come to expect from this petulant President.

    1. 32Slim32 - Good morning and thank you for your comment. Yes, my effective tax rate (seen in line 15) does include SS/payroll taxed. I wanted to make sure everything was accounted for. I did this mainly because of the tax refund. With getting a refund of $2,783, how do I know exactly where that came from (whether it is off SS/payroll, fed income, etc). so I wanted to make it big picture. Even when including SS/payroll taxes, my effective rate is still much less than many middle-income earners say they pay.

      Definitely agree with you about the secretary. She is dragged into this, yet she is quite wealthy. It's none of our business what she pays in taxes. I also don't care what she makes as that is none of my business either :-).

      Thank you again! Hope you have a great day!

  5. I call this thread

    "How many retards does it take to unscrew a lightbulb"

    1. Ummmm why? Can you back what you're saying. Maybe it's just me, but, your comment really provides nothing.

      Our way... what we feel is the intelligent way: Make a case, have a position, then back it with studies, articles, etc. to help solidify our position.

      Your way..? To come here, make a statement with no intelligent, fact-backed counter argument. Perhaps this topic is over your head?

      I would love to see an actual, fact-based rebuttal... instead of sitting behind a computer insulting the post and the commenters her. Thank you.

  6. yes they do. It is time to be honest. the rich are scoundrels.

    1. Anonymous - see the comment above. I don't feel I should, but I will repeat:

      Can you back what you're saying? Our position: the rich pay a greater rate in taxes. In spite of the media and Obama's myth that the rich pay lower tax rates, the data shows this isn't true. We cite more than one study, chart, article, etc. to back this.

      Your position: You lie. I say they don't because I say they don't. Can you please back what you say. The purpose of this blog is to share info and debate subjects with sound, fact-based arguments. The "it is time to be honest" really doesn't back your point. If you have info that actually rebuts what our argument is, by all means, please present it. That's what this is all about. Thank you.

  7. This demonization of the 'rich' from posters like Keylawk and the 2nd Anonymous show just how thoroughly some have been brainwashed by this administration (in cahoots with the mainstream media.)

    As I said in my last post, they repeat the lie, because they love the lie and no amount of documentation will change their minds. Their ONLY reputtal is an attempt to kill the messanger with unbacked claims and insults. Umm... they're quite simply 'stuck on stupid' with NO inclination to do their OWN homework to seek the TRUTH.

    I fear that some, if not all of this may be a direct result of our government run school indoctrination (all levels)... but that would be a whole 'nother rant : )

    Obama's first official act was to lower taxes on those he felt 'deserved a break.' As a result, aside from FICA - my paycheck had ZERO Federal withholding taken out - ZIP! As a 'tipped' employee - I've had dealings with the IRS thugs in the past, so naturally, I freaked. I called my boss and filled out the paperwork to make adjustments to my pay... I file jointly with my husband and we STILL ended up OWING the govt. another $700.00 at the end of the year.(And yes, I DO report my tips, bi-weekly.)

    We have few 'deductions' - a small mortgage and our health insurance ($10,000 a year - which is more than our mortgage)... and I can NOT remember the last yr. we received a 'refund.' Many years, I've been forced to repeatedly supply ADDITIONAL documentation on my tips.

    With the govt. you PAY the PIPER or they TAKE your STUFF.

    Once a person is on the IRS radar - regardless of the outcome, they tend to stay there - forever. I worked for Caesar's Palace in Vegas in the 70's/80's, saw what they were doing to the dealers, and kept VERY good, daily records on my tips... still they came after me! And do to this day.

    The above rant is ANOTHER reason I'm ALL for a flat or fair tax.

    A 30% tax on investments would KILL our already volitile stock market. I know I'm beating a dead horse, BUT monies invested - have ALREADY been taxed. And the company is taxed, BEFORE distribution to stockholders... then the stockholders are taxed - so far, I see that money as taxed THREE times. Taxed again when it's spent - interest is taxed when it's banked... it goes on, and on, and on...

    What the left REFUSES to understand is that if we 'tax ALL of our rich' at 100% of their income and investment... that money would run our bloated - out of control government for less than a year! Then what?

    Oh, that's right! Obama's socialist dream come true! We'd ALL be -- EQUALLY POOR!

    Flat or fair tax!

  8. Yes, thank you. With all these facts, people like Obama and Al Sharpton keep spreading this lie. It is simply not true.

    Saw the Cato institute information which cites the IRS.

    Saw the CRS report.

    Saw CNN Money's article

    Hell, saw your personal taxes.

    Keep it up. Keep spreading the truth. Obama supporters are either willfully lying or ignoring fact. What more do they need? You have it right here and for some reason they will still spread this lie.

  9. YES! I noticed there are no real, actual, factual liberal refutations here. Hmmm I wonder why lol. Will check back consistently. I doubt I will see any. Facts typically scare them off.

  10. Here libby libby libby. Any liberals going to try to shoot down or spin the facts shown above. I love this post. It shows truth. I want to see wat libs have to say.