See the Supreme Court's decision here: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf
10:06am - CNN broke news that the individual mandate has been ruled unconstitutional in and of itself as a mandate, but may be upheld as a tax. More to come.
10:33am - According to CNN's live blog:
" The Supreme Court has upheld the entire health care law by a vote of 5 to 4, Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears said. That includes the medicare provision."
"Kate Bolduan reports that the Chief Justice John Roberts issued a long opinion in which he said the controversial individual mandate may be upheld and is within Congress’ power under the taxing clause rather than the commerce clause."
10:44am - Key Points from CNN:
- Court rules 5-4 to uphold individual mandate
- Court says the requirement to have insurance is a tax, and is constitutional.
- Court says on Medicaid that the federal government may not take Medicaid from states that refuse to take part. (That is a limited ruling, without striking it down. In the ruling the court offered the government a way to remedy this potential problem.)
- Court vindicates, affirms Presidential and congressional power in an important issue like health care.
Hey that is awesome, now the government can force us all to buy a Bible too or tax us even further. It would be for the greater good if everyone would read it.
ReplyDeleteHi Slim -
DeleteI seriously doubt THIS gov. would force us to buy a Bible, but with THIS ruling as a precedent I believe they could/would 'tax' us if they decide that we should: join a gym, eat ONLY vegetables (yuk), walk to work (15 miles one way for me), or ANYTHING that THEY 'decide' is 'health' related.
They COULD 'tax' the manufacturers of 'sugary beverages', Mickey D's and I-Hop out of existence!
We need clean air for our 'health', so they COULD decide that we purchase ONLY electric cars and/or hybrids.
That is - if we INSIST on driving, instead of a) using 'public transportation' or b) moving to a metropolitan area, where we could WALK everywhere... Agenda 21?
THIS opens the door for Big Brother Government to 'mandate' anything they see fit - and call it a 'tax', under the guise of 'the common good.'
Good morning Dara. I don't think that this government would mandate the purchase of a Bible either. Just an example.
DeleteI hope that forced walking to work doesn't go in effect today. We would have a lot of dead Tennesseans this weekend with highs today of 99, 105, 107, & 103 for the rest of the weekend.
This is the part that truly scares me:
ReplyDelete"Court says the requirement to have insurance is a tax, and is constitutional."
So the precedent is set... if the government rules you must purchase a hybrid vehicle, mandating that you must is not okay, but saying you must as long as it classifies that purchase as a tax IS okay?
I just don't see how requiring you to have a private product is the same as a tax.
Isn't a tax something that comes with the purchase of a good? So if I choose NOT to purchase a pair of sneakers, I can't get taxed for it. So now, it appears, the insurance itself IS the tax. Purchasing it or not, I must be taxed for it?
Good morning gentlemen. I am with you on this mandate thing. To call it a tax is absurd. A tax would be indicative of universal healthcare where the government supplies it and you pay, as a portion of your taxes, into it to realize benefits. To force someone to purchase something is not a tax. LME - I don't think your example is accurate but it isn't far off. I don't think they could for you to buy a hybrid necessarily but I would think they could force you to buy a car. Curious ruling by SCOTUS but I imagine things will become a bit more clear throughout the day and perhaps the ruling isn't as rosy for Obama as is being first reported (although this is a REALLY great ruling for him as POTUS and 2012 candidate).
DeleteOn the flip side LME - mandated ID cards are now just a tax right?
Good morning, whatsamattausa - I can see what you mean by the car example. Fair enough. I just pushed it one step further showing that it now has the power to make you buy anything... including the "type" of something... But I definitely see what you mean.
DeleteBut yes, calling it a tax? I just don't understand that... especially since a tax is an after the fact thing. If I buy shoes I get taxed. If I don't buy shoes, I don't get taxed. But now, the precedent exists: If I WANT to buy shoes and I do, I get taxed. If I DON'T WANT to buy shoes and I DON'T (the freedom to NOT do something, no matter how heinous our out of touch it seems to be, should be a freedom we protect), I get taxed? How can this be allowed to stand.
As far as IDs, no, I don't believe, as we have said, that people should be required to carry them. I thought we compromised on this :-P
Good morning Whatsamattausa (and congrats on the baseball championship).
DeleteWhy couldn't they force us to buy a hybrid, or a Bible, or broccoli (yuck), or asparagus (yuck again)? They just decided to force us to buy insurance as a condition of breathing in this country.
My question is, does this tax apply only to citizens of the United States or does it apply to those living illegally among us too? Will illegal aliens be able to claim they are exempt from this "tax" since they aren't citizens?
LME - We discussed it but not sure we came to agreement. I was merely ointing out that if we can be forced to purchase something is complex as healthcare, ID cards are a no brainer to force people to at least own (though carrying is another issue).
DeleteSlim - Thanks! The reason I say that is because the law doesn't say you have to purchase and HMO or PPO (at least to my knowledge) but rather health insurance in some capacity. So, I think they could force you to buy a 'bible' (i use the quotes to indicate "bible" as meaning any religious book - quoran, torah, etc.) or they could force you to buy a vegetable. I don't think that can tell you exactly which one to buy. However, that's just my take on it. With the radical step SCOTUS just took, perhaps your interpretation is the more accurate one.
As for your question on illegals in the healthcare system... They will not be forced, they'll just continue to be indigents and our actual tax money (from real taxes) will pay for it.
Whatsamattausa - Gotcha - thank you for clarifying. I didn't realize you went down that path. I guess you would be right... why not have the government impose a law saying you MUST carry an ID. According to the opinion of the court, you can get "TAXED" for not doing something:
Delete"The Federal Government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. Section 5000A would therefore be unconstitutional if read as a command. The Federal Government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. Section 5000A is therefore constitutional, because it can reasonably be read as a tax," Roberts said in his opinion.
'Supreme court upholds health care law under tax clause'
ReplyDelete'Supreme court rules individual mandate will become a tax.'
Obama: 'This is definitely NOT a tax.'
The monies to fund this monstrosity will be deducted from the tax returns of 'individuals with incomes above a certain level'.
So... it looks like the Obamination got his 'redistribution of wealth' after all... *sigh*
What the (bleep) just happened?
Okay, I'm over it... now to work on REPEAL of the whole stinking thing!!
Good morning Dara... I think the only way that happens is if Romney wins. By the time the next election rolls around, it will likely be too late. However, Romney may take another stroll in his flip-flops and declare this a win since he was the architect of Obamacare. :)
DeleteFrankly, I'm somewhat glad it was upheld (I kind of wish it was declared unconstitutional but only if universal healthcare replaced it) but the individual mandate aspect of it is what I just don't like... not one bit!
Hi Whatsamattausa
DeleteWhile I'm not crazy for the idea of Romneycare, it is a State law. The people of Mass decided that they wanted it for THEIR state. I'm not up to date on the numbers, but I understand it is VERY expensive - on the state level... and NOT very efficient.
'Universal Health care' is NOT efficient - my Canadian friends attest to that on a regular basis.
'Health care would necessarily - be rationed.'
So... who gets to stand at the end of the line? Who is denied treatment?
Old people? Children born with defects? Those who choose NOT to follow Michelle's 'arugula diet'? Those who choose to drive to work, instead of walking?
And who decides, literally, who lives - and who dies?
Some far-off, faceless, unelected bureaucrat... no thanks.
REPEAL and REPLACE.
Obama: This is not a tax.
ReplyDeleteSupreme Court: This is a tax
How will the 46 MILLION people who can't afford to buy their own groceries (that is how many people are on food stamps) purchase insurance or afford the tax for not purchasing insurance? Will they be given a policy for free at the expense of the 53% of Americans that actually pay taxes? How will that work?
ReplyDeleteYes. Don't worry people. Sit on your couches. Don't better yourself. Don't eat healthily, don't work out, don't get educations so you can get jobs where your employer provides healthcare coverage as a condition of you working for him, just sit there and relax. I will continue to work hard to get the shit taxed out of me, and now my employer will pay more in taxes to, so that you can sit on your fat asses, do nothing, contribute nothing, but no matter what, your stints, diabetes medication and other treatment will be paid for by me.
DeleteYour last sentence is essentially what it will be slim32.
DeleteBy my memory part of Obamacare also greatly expanded the number of people that qualify for Medicaid (by increasing the minimum income by 33% or so?), if I recall correctly. So those that are in or near poverty will not be forced to buy insurance, as they’ll be able to take Medicaid.
Part of balancing the cost of the increased Medicaid members was supposed to be that doctor payment cut bill, which has been stalled near indefinitely and likely will never go into effect at this rate.
The executive director of the DNC (being a Democrat I guess he would be an "adult" unlike the Republicans who are "children") weighed in the SCOTUS ruling. He said:
ReplyDeleteIt's Constitutional. Bitches.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/06/how-the-dnc-is-celebrating-127543.html
It is always so inspiring to see the grown up remarks of the "adults in the room" Democrats. They are such gracious winners and losers.
Would that now make it the War on Bitches instead of the war on women? How does that work Mr. Executive Director?
Keep it classy up there at the DNC Mr. Executive Director. Way to be beacon of light lighting the way on proper civility. What ever would the American people do without such grown up leadership?
Don't worry poor people. Be unhealthy. Eat terrible foods, ride around in your scooters in walmart because you weigh 450 pounds, get stds, smoke, do drugs, don't get good jobs, don't get health insurance. I will still wake up at 4:40am every day to make sure ol' Uncle Sam taxes the shit out of me and my 50+ employee employer so that YOU can have some free healthcare.
ReplyDeleteI had to take a day to Ponder what just happened. I had to reach inside and try to make sense of what SCOTUS did. I know that the 3 Unconstituional Females on the Panel are on bended knee given POTUS all the Love and Support he apparently needs. That goes without even saying but I wanted to say it!
ReplyDeleteI am not totally up on the whole Obamacare thing all the in's and out's of it , but neither is anyone else. As everyday it seems we find out more and more about how it will break the last thread that is holding our Constitution and Our way of life totally in 2.
I have realized thought that what Justice Roberts said is True (not word 4 word) SCOTUS can't be to blame or who some Vote into Office. Well he is right about that and I don't take the all the Blame either.
I did not Vote for this POTUS , I was not very vocal and not really up on what was going on in Our Country as a whole. I can say I am sorry all I want, but it does not take back or get us better in anyway soon.
I have thought and burned and got so mad I couldn't talk for awhile about what Just happened. I know there will be folks saying Yeah and folks like me that worrry about what POTUS will do next.
So here is my Take and as crazy as it seems do think about it and wonder if Justice Roberts could have had the Forsite to see what he hopes will happen.
He is giving us a chance to end the maddness, if we feel as if we have no choice then we lose Faith and or Hope. If he knew as we all did that if he Struck it Down then POTUS and his Minions would and did have things ready to throw, sign and force a Minute after the Hammer came down. He knew because of what happened with AZ Imagration ruling and he has seen from the start that this POTUS is a Wanna B Dictator. He has seen it with the FF how POTUS has taken a EP and used it in a way that was never meant to be used in. I am sure he sees all the Elite things that POTUS has been doing since he first got in Office and How for two yrs POTUS had complete control and did nothing but the Obamacare push,Vacations and Golf.
He has also seem how POTUS appoints folks to jobs they have no clue about just like how POTUS is clueless about the position he is in. Like we have all seen everyday since he took Office. With all the Civil unrest in Our once Great Nation he adds more and more to the fire all the time. I think looking for a reason to enact Martial Law and he then can take total Power of everything vital to life in our Country.
We are not blind, maybe a little slow sometimes. I want to believe that Justice Roberts is giving us our last choice, take our Country Back or lose everything our Ancestors fought for and go to the far left of Progressive Hate for our Constitution. I believe he knew how many Americans did not want this and how it will hurt us as a Nation. If he would have Stuck it down then POTUS would have done everything in his power to Control it and swing it his way. Which as we all know is not the American Way. So in doing what he did maybe he was hoping that more then One Giant would be awoken. I hope that American's no matter what side will see now threw clear eyes and Proud Heart that we need a New POTUS to lead us into a Better Future. Not that MR is perfect!
So maybe just maybe Justice Roberts did us a Favor as a Nation by not letting POTUS have his total way by letting Us as a People do what is right for our Nation as a whole. Because if we heard right POTUS didn't want it either after more and more has been coming out about what it is going to do to All Americans in the end. Remember More American's didn't want it then did! Maybe this will turn the tide for Some who where on the side of POTUS
So in your face POTUS this Giant is fully Awake and I will open the door to promise of Hope for our Nation! I will Vote in Nov to get you Out and to take back Our Country for the Next Generations to come.
So maybe Justice Roberts not a Coward, Maybe the only Person Brave Enough to take a Stance who could?
@TinaBoydNewman
DeleteAfter I simmered down and read the full text of Justice Roberts' decision, that same thought crossed my mind.
While some t.v. pundits were screaming about WHO vetted Roberts and what a terrible job they'd done, others stated that he may have very shrewdly done us a favor.
I then decided that, whatever his underlying agenda, Justice Roberts had - once and for all - exposed the monstrous and filthy elephant in the room (Sorry LME : )
He said it out loud for all to hear - the monstrous LIE that Obama, Pelosi, Reid and ALL their ilk have perpetrated from the very beginning...
Along with the 24,000 pages of its OTHER nasty components - Obamcare IS and always WAS a massive TAX increase on the very people who are struggling the hardest in President Downgrade's economy.